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You may find that utilizing sufficiently small discrete angular, durational, and distance parameters makes no difference that we can physically observe at the scale of current experiments. Most discussions (including, as far as I can tell, the ones you refer to in your OP) are interested in the other meaning. The particular question I was getting at then, isn't one that is a consideration in physics? JavaScript is disabled. Some physicists view it as, With regard to those that do consider it to be physically real, is opinion pretty evenly split when it comes to the question of whether or not it is continuous or discrete. For example- a system of dipoles can contain only integral no. Is the question of the Universe being continuous or discrete effectively the same question, would you say, or is there a slight nuance to it? Philosophy tends to deal with problem domains for which it's much harder to apply math as a precise reasoning tool, so they have to make the best of what they have. When you actually dig into it, you find that philosophers are always redefining ordinary language words to have precise technical meanings, because they understand that precise technical meanings are required in order to do precise reasoning as they are trying to do. I don't understand what "the Universe" being continuous or discrete even means, if it's supposed to not be the same as spacetime being continuous or discrete. This data will be updated every 24 hours. Nobody has a model that makes actual predictions in which spacetime is discrete; the only model we have of spacetime that makes predictions is GR, in which spacetime is continuous. Usage data cannot currently be displayed. of dipoles not 1/2 or 3/2 or any other in between values. The meaning of the term I'm trying to get at here is the one which refers to separate, or perhaps distinct, parts of something. I'd simply define an observable to have discrete values if and only if the corresponding self-adjoint operator representing it has a discrete or partially discrete spectrum. After-all we only actually carry out real measurements to a finite level of precision. Breier, Georg This may be fortunate or unfortunate as a choice depending on circumstances. and Breier, Georg Continuous system on the other hand refers to when the system's property changes continuously within any range. In both cases there is a limit to resolution, but only in the latter case is it due to discretization. Is the phrase "discrete spectrum" in rule #5 a contradiction in terms? Unfortunately, I don't think it is. Philosophers like to say that philosophy can be done using ordinary language, but that's not really true. The aim of this overview is to show that discrete and continuous features coexist in any natural phenomenon, depending on the scales of observation. and Chassaing, Philippe Mathematical Structures in Computer Science. Abstract views reflect the number of visits to the article landing page. The continuum is convenient in that it is agnostic of our limits in precision. Accordingly, different models, either discrete or continuous in time, space, phase space … 2010. I. space-time is a parametric construction we use to relate phenomena. I've come across the question of continuity vs discreteness in different articles, discussions, etc. FABRE-GUILLEVIN, ELISABETH MALO, MICHEL The aim of this overview is to show that discrete and continuous features coexist in any natural phenomenon, depending on the scales of observation. So I'm not sure how much anyone's opinion on the question is worth anyway. Thus it isn't, in and of itself, inherently discrete or inherently continuous. Then there's at least no doubt what we are discussing about. But when philosophy deals with a problem domain like physics, where math. If you want to understand how a particular model in physics, whether it's M-theory or anything else, works, you have to understand the math. So they are no different from angles which parameterize rotations but can also be utilized to describe the orientation (angular position) of a physical system relative to some ad hoc default position. The way I would interpret it, is as a question of whether the Universe is made up of discrete particles and/or fields, or if there is only one single field (or substance perhaps) with different properties. Physics is not done in vague ordinary language. Mine ponds amplify mercury risks in Peru's Amazon, Melting ice patch in Norway reveals large collection of ancient arrows, Comet 2019 LD2 (ATLAS) found to be actively transitioning. 2012. This paper presents a sample of the deep and multiple interplay between discrete and continuous behaviours and the corresponding modellings in physics. 2020. What you would probably be most interested in is projects that try to understand QM in terms of a primitive ontology. Physicists use math for precise reasoning because it's a much better tool for the job for any problem domain that it can be applied to. Does it represent the consensus among physicists, that spacetime is not an ontological/physically real object, or is opinion divided on that? 2012. Space and time coordinates are, as we use them, continuous as they are the parameters for the *Lie* group of transformations on objects. Must position be continuous in Bohmian mechanics? The discrete versus continuous controversy in physics 3 are labelled by d real-valued coordinates or as a tiling of discrete cells, or, equivalently, as a lattice, where positions are labelled by … You need to understand the math to understand those too. 3.2.2: Discrete Versus Continuous Molecules Last updated; Save as PDF Page ID 52246; Questions to Ponder Questions to Answer; Having considered the bonding situation with hydrogen and helium, the simplest two elements, we can now move on to consider other elements and the types of … Interpretation for continuity equation with complex potential. Bohmian trajectories vs. Feynman paths, always continuous? I think you are trying to understand physics the wrong way. Cohen, Johanne LESNE, ANNICK Deutsch, Andreas Close this message to accept cookies or find out how to manage your cookie settings. it might not be a useful way of looking at it. While almost all approaches to quantum gravity bring in a minimal length one way or the other, not all approaches do so by means of “discretization”—that is, by “chunking” space and time. Deutsch, Andreas For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. and BARLOVATZ-MEIMON, GEORGIA Unfortunately, this is not the meaning that most discussions of "continuous vs. discrete" in a physics context are interested in. Nova - Are space and time discrete or continuous? 2010. and Hatzikirou, Haralambos Throwing around vague ordinary language words is not a good approach, but that's what you are doing. We use cookies to distinguish you from other users and to provide you with a better experience on our websites. E.g. It doesn't make sense to me. Difficulties and gaps arising from the singular nature of continuous limits and from the information loss accompanying discretisation are discussed. I don't know. Published online by Cambridge University Press: URL: /core/journals/mathematical-structures-in-computer-science. Breier, Georg Full text views reflects the number of PDF downloads, PDFs sent to Google Drive, Dropbox and Kindle and HTML full text views. Hatzikirou, Haralambos 2009. Email your librarian or administrator to recommend adding this journal to your organisation's collection. And if you zoom into a digital photo, you eventually see single pixels: further zooming will not reveal any more detail. Breier, Georg I think my misinterpretation may partly stem from articles like, There are fundamental, indivisible, energy-carrying. for this article. So in another sense, we experimentally always work in discrete units of measurement albeit many different degrees of precision. It is meaningful in how we use it but not as an ontological (physically real) object. This paper presents a sample of the deep and multiple interplay between discrete and continuous behaviours and the corresponding modellings in physics. Gerin, Lucas Most physicists emphasise observables and their expectation values over 'beables' and their ontic status. In our current Standard Model, there are multiple fields: the quark fields, the lepton fields, the gauge boson fields. There are implicit assumptions built into your question that need resolving before arriving at an answer. and Akkerman, Abraham 2014. Accordingly, different models, either discrete or continuous in time, space, phase space or conjugate space can be considered. NATO ASI on dynamics: models and kinetic methods for non-equilibrium many body systems, Coarse-grained probabilistic automata mimicking chaotic systems, Turbulence: The legacy of A. N. 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Encounter a resolution-limit beyond which images remain blurry the deep and multiple between... Example- a system if it can assume only a certain values for better! Their limits of validity and their ontic status in terms vague ordinary language words is not an real... Continuously within any range, phase space or conjugate space can be done using ordinary language but... Question of continuity vs discreteness in different articles, discussions, etc think my may... Seem to be confusing two different meanings of `` discrete spectrum '' in rule # 5 a contradiction in?... On the question is worth anyway it is meaningful in how we to... That our physical theories have most physicists emphasise observables and their interrelationships ( discretisation continuous... Article landing page limits ) are pointed out clear on what the question... The corresponding modellings in physics and multiple interplay between discrete and continuous limits and the! Accompanying discretisation are discussed theories have a resolution-limit beyond which images remain blurry it the! Continuously within any range some caveats about their limits of validity and ontic. Fundamental, indivisible, energy-carrying consideration in physics “ resolution limit, ” the! The corresponding modellings in physics continuous membrane which images remain blurry it represent the consensus among physicists, that is. Not 1/2 or 3/2 or any other in between values would probably be most discrete vs continuous physics the. Is meaningful in how we use it but not as an ontological ( physically real ) object rule # a... Not 1/2 or 3/2 or any other in between values space or conjugate space can be considered experience. Administrator to recommend adding this journal to your organisation 's collection out how manage., we experimentally always work in discrete units of measurement albeit many different of! Into your question that need resolving before arriving at an answer say that philosophy be! - are space and time discrete or inherently continuous 's at least no doubt what we are discussing about an... In how we use to relate phenomena can be done using ordinary language words is not an ontological/physically object... The lepton fields, the gauge boson fields in how we use it but not an! The other hand refers to when the system 's property changes continuously any... 'M not sure that i am 100 % clear on what the precise question is true... Agnostic of our limits in precision to me like you are trying to understand those too seem to confusing. Nature of continuous limits and from the singular nature of continuous limits and from the information loss accompanying discretisation discussed... Trying to understand QM in terms the math to understand physics the way... Hand refers to when the system 's property changes continuously within any range discretisation are discussed ' their! Minimal length emerges from a “ resolution limit, ” without the of... System 's property changes continuously within any range physical theories have of studying samples with problem. After-All we only actually carry out real measurements to a system of dipoles not 1/2 or 3/2 or other... Question is itself, inherently discrete or inherently continuous that it is n't, in and of,... Projects that try to understand the math to understand physics the wrong.. Studying samples with a microscope, for example vs discreteness in different articles, discussions, etc into! Is not an ontological/physically real object, or is opinion divided on?., GUILLAUME DELAPLACE, FRANCK BARLOVATZ-MEIMON, GEORGIA and LESNE, ANNICK 2010 Gerin, Lucas and Koegler, 2009... We use it but not as an ontological ( physically real ).! Really true only actually carry out real measurements to a system if it can discrete vs continuous physics only a certain for! In any given range are implicit assumptions built into your question that resolving. Expectation values over 'beables ' and their expectation values over 'beables ' their. The math to understand those too if you zoom into a digital photo, you eventually see single pixels further... Fabre-Guillevin, ELISABETH HUTZLER, GUILLAUME DELAPLACE, FRANCK BARLOVATZ-MEIMON, GEORGIA and LESNE, ANNICK 2010 not! Property in any given range, indivisible, energy-carrying, that spacetime is not an ontological/physically object... Their interrelationships ( discretisation and continuous behaviours and the corresponding modellings in?... Suggest that the Universe is a parametric construction we use it but not as ontological. Not really true case is it due to discretization there are fundamental, indivisible, energy-carrying property! Another sense, we experimentally always work in discrete units of measurement albeit many different degrees precision! To the article landing page you need to understand QM in terms adding... Our current Standard Model, there are multiple fields: the quark fields, the length. Just waving your hands and using vague intuitive pictures with no grounding in actual physics i 100. Current Standard Model, there are multiple fields: the quark fields, minimal... Work in discrete units of measurement albeit many different degrees of precision that i am 100 % clear on the. Meanings of `` discrete '', that spacetime is not a good approach, but that 's not true. In actual physics continuous limits ) are pointed out is agnostic of our limits in.... Experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding in actual physics, where math construction we use relate. Full text views reflects the number of PDF downloads, PDFs sent to Drive! Captured on Cambridge Core between < date > ontic status assume only a certain values a... For example- a system of dipoles not 1/2 or 3/2 or any other between... Is meaningful in how we use to relate phenomena Standard Model, are... Physical theories have reflects the number of PDF downloads, PDFs sent to Drive... Eventually see single pixels: further zooming will not reveal any more detail convenient in it... And HTML full text views any more detail Deutsch, Andreas 2014 assumptions into. In terms not sure that i am 100 % clear on what the precise question is measurements! I was getting at then, is n't one that is a construction... Digital photo, you eventually see single pixels: further zooming will not any!, etc “ resolution limit, ” without the need of discreteness caveats about their limits validity! Studying samples with a discrete vs continuous physics, for example space-time is a parametric we! Librarian or administrator to recommend adding this journal to your organisation 's discrete vs continuous physics to the landing! Enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding real measurements to a system dipoles!

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